The FP Interview: Bob from I Am a Christian Too
FP: Who is Bob from the Blog I am a Christian Too?
Bob: Well, my background is a bit different than many Christian bloggers, since I'm a layperson instead of a student or a Pastor. My undergraduate degree was in physics, which I then abandoned to get an MBA. I've been a management consultant now for over 20 years (which, btw, is the only reason my blog is anonymous -- I prefer to keep my blogging unknown to my clients and colleagues at work.) I think my tendency to write ridiculously long posts is because of my many years as a consultant...I can't let a subject alone until I feel like I've analyzed it, thought through all the angles, and gotten to the bottom of it.
I live in Southern California with my wife of 20 years, my two boys ages 11 and 14, and Ziggy (Beagle) and Molly (Golden Retriever.) Blogging gets squeezed in after work, family and church, which is why the frequency of my posts is pretty inconsistent.
FP: When and why did you start your Blog? What does the phrase 'I am a Christian Too' mean?
Bob: I was completely disillusioned after the 2004 presidential election, not just because Bush won, but because his victory was credited to the Christian vote. The MSM was saying that Christians voted for Bush, and non-believers voted for Kerry. I kept thinking "hey wait, I voted for Kerry, I'm not conservative, and I'm a Christian too!", hence the name of my blog. But it's not just that Christianity and progressive politics are compatible. For me, my Christian faith demands my progressive politics. How can you read the gospels without believing that, as a society, we must do more to care for those in need? This phrase also makes me think of today's "Samaritans" -- the poor, gays, Africans with HIV -- as I imagine them saying "I am a Christian too", or even "I was made in the image of God too."
But the other reason I started the blog is because of a growing desire to be more active in my faith. I toyed with the idea of abandoning my career and entering the seminary. But, first of all, I don't think I'd be a very good Pastor, and more importantly, God hasn't called me to be one. While I was thinking about this, the Pastor at my church taught a class on "finding your spiritual gifts", where we went through an inventory of our gifts. "Writing" came out as my top spiritual gift. I took this as God's tap on the shoulder that I should start blogging.
FP: I recall in one of your posts that you once belonged to (the Missouri Synod?) a more conservative Lutheran denomination but that you now feel more at home in the moderate ELCA. What are the main differences between those two experiences and what drew you to the ELCA path?
Bob: I grew up and was confirmed in the LCMS. When I went off to college, I stopped attending church, but began reading more theology and talking to people from other Christian traditions. After my "years in the desert", my wife and I began looking for a church home and decided the LCMS was no longer an option. They do not ordain women and they believe in a conservative biblical inerrancy. I needed a church that wasn't so rigid, that allowed Lutheran practices and understandings to evolve over time, instead of being frozen in the 16th century. I wanted a more progressive church, a more "liberal" church in the sense of being open to new understandings given us by the Holy Spirit.
We found we were very much at home in a local ELCA church, and have been there ever since.
FP: We poked fun recently at the idea of Lutherans being disinclined to do good works because of the value they place on finding God's grace--do you think this old saw still cuts wood?
Bob: This is a bit of a caricature of the traditional Lutheran mindset a la "Lake Woebegone", and like all caricatures, there is a bit of truth to it. But it really doesn't reflect reality. Lutheran Social Services is one of the largest social service non-profits in the world. The ELCA churches in my city ran a crisis hot-line for many years, ran several homeless day centers, and now run an elementary and middle school, sponsor missionaries and help support a Lutheran retirement home. We've built houses for the poor in Mexico, had a Spanish language ministry...the list goes on and on.
Of course the reason we do all these things isn't to work out our salvation, but in response to God's gift of salvation that has already been accomplished by God's grace through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So Lutherans tend to be pretty humble about our good works.
FP: The ELCA recently issued a kind of a muddled message on human sexuality--what did you think of it?
Bob: On the one hand, I believe the ELCA should ordain actively gay clergy and bless same-sex unions. But I am also a realist. I know that if the ELCA were to take this stand it would split the church. Now I wouldn't mind if some of those on the right left the ELCA, but we aren't talking about a small fringe on the right. Many congregations would be split right down the middle.
So I understand why the ELCA Task Force on Human Sexuality did what it did. It recommended three things: that the ELCA not change its policies against actively gay clergy and same-sex unions, that we should not necessarily discipline Pastors for violating these policies, and that we keep talking about how to stay together despite our differences. It's easy to dismiss these recommendations as muddled. But Lutherans believe their church leadership should reflect the beliefs and attitudes of the laity instead of getting too far out in front of them. And this statement is exactly where Lutherans are today. So my disagreement isn't with the task force as much as with my fellow Lutherans. So I'll try to persuade them to my view, and pray that the next iteration of the task force will reflect an evolving consensus of ELCA Lutherans and call for ordaining actively gay Pastors and blessing same-sex unions.
FP: Who are your favorite thinkers and writers in the area of politics, religion and theology?
Bob: When I was in college, the book The Christian Agnostic by Leslie Weatherhead allowed me to remain a Christian despite not being sure if I "bought" the whole thing as I do now. Scott Peck's books had a big impact on me when I was younger as well, and contributed to my progressive view on politics.
Over the years I've read C.S. Lewis , Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Paul Tillich , all pretty standard stuff, but very important to my thinking about my faith. Recently I've read God's Politics (like everyone else) and become a Jim Wallis fan. I've also read A Generous Orthodoxy by Brian McLaren because I'm trying to figure out this emergent stuff. Next on my list is Reinhold Neibuhr -- I keep hearing about him, and am curious to find out what he's all about.
FP: Many people feel frustrated by both the perception of religious people and the Bush Administration--what can they do to change things?
Bob: Jim Wallis likes to say that "we are the ones that we've been waiting for", but we can't just take to the streets and storm the Bastille as it were. We need to organize, and we need to be savvy about how we present our message. I am looking for a way to organize that can give focus to this incipient progressive Christian movement, an organization that is both political and religious, that is outside and cuts across existing denominational lines, to speak for those of us that believe in progressive policies because of our religious beliefs, not despite them. We need to advocate policies in authentic, orthodox Christian language so that we can't be dismissed by the majority of Americans that are theologically orthodox. We need to take the moral high ground, but with a deep humility and respect for those that disagree, or we will be just another group of hate-mongers. We have to be independent of both Republicans and Democrats so we can speak prophetically to both. If we get tied up too tightly with the Democrats, we'll just be another Democratic interest group. And we need to be very visible, in the blogosphere, in the MSM, on talk radio, everywhere. We should never allow another politically conservative Christian presume to speak for all Christians again.
Ultimately what we can all do is to evangelize by letting our friends, family, co-workers, acquaintances know that we care for the Samaritans and the weak among us because we are Christians, and that these are our Christian values.
FP: Are there a couple of posts you are most proud of?
Bob: Here are a couple:
I wrote this post after hearing Jim Wallis speak. It reflects my thoughts and feelings upon having realized that I was caught up in more than just blogging as a hobby, but as part of a new progressive Christian movement. This was when I moved from seeing this as primarily a political enterprise (i.e. elect a Democrat in 2008) to a religious enterprise (care for the poor, the infirm, the hungry.)
I wrote this post Revisiting My Post on Gay Christians after having spent a couple days really hating a previous post Gay Christian Playwright Needed.This was the first time I really didn't like something I had posted. I even considered deleting the post, but that would have been a bit dishonest. Instead, I sat with it for a couple days to figure out what it was I didn't like about it, and ultimately broke through to a deeper insight into the topic, as reflected in this later post. What's funny is that, now that I go back and read the first post, it really wasn't bad at all!
Bob: Well, my background is a bit different than many Christian bloggers, since I'm a layperson instead of a student or a Pastor. My undergraduate degree was in physics, which I then abandoned to get an MBA. I've been a management consultant now for over 20 years (which, btw, is the only reason my blog is anonymous -- I prefer to keep my blogging unknown to my clients and colleagues at work.) I think my tendency to write ridiculously long posts is because of my many years as a consultant...I can't let a subject alone until I feel like I've analyzed it, thought through all the angles, and gotten to the bottom of it.
I live in Southern California with my wife of 20 years, my two boys ages 11 and 14, and Ziggy (Beagle) and Molly (Golden Retriever.) Blogging gets squeezed in after work, family and church, which is why the frequency of my posts is pretty inconsistent.
FP: When and why did you start your Blog? What does the phrase 'I am a Christian Too' mean?
Bob: I was completely disillusioned after the 2004 presidential election, not just because Bush won, but because his victory was credited to the Christian vote. The MSM was saying that Christians voted for Bush, and non-believers voted for Kerry. I kept thinking "hey wait, I voted for Kerry, I'm not conservative, and I'm a Christian too!", hence the name of my blog. But it's not just that Christianity and progressive politics are compatible. For me, my Christian faith demands my progressive politics. How can you read the gospels without believing that, as a society, we must do more to care for those in need? This phrase also makes me think of today's "Samaritans" -- the poor, gays, Africans with HIV -- as I imagine them saying "I am a Christian too", or even "I was made in the image of God too."
But the other reason I started the blog is because of a growing desire to be more active in my faith. I toyed with the idea of abandoning my career and entering the seminary. But, first of all, I don't think I'd be a very good Pastor, and more importantly, God hasn't called me to be one. While I was thinking about this, the Pastor at my church taught a class on "finding your spiritual gifts", where we went through an inventory of our gifts. "Writing" came out as my top spiritual gift. I took this as God's tap on the shoulder that I should start blogging.
FP: I recall in one of your posts that you once belonged to (the Missouri Synod?) a more conservative Lutheran denomination but that you now feel more at home in the moderate ELCA. What are the main differences between those two experiences and what drew you to the ELCA path?
Bob: I grew up and was confirmed in the LCMS. When I went off to college, I stopped attending church, but began reading more theology and talking to people from other Christian traditions. After my "years in the desert", my wife and I began looking for a church home and decided the LCMS was no longer an option. They do not ordain women and they believe in a conservative biblical inerrancy. I needed a church that wasn't so rigid, that allowed Lutheran practices and understandings to evolve over time, instead of being frozen in the 16th century. I wanted a more progressive church, a more "liberal" church in the sense of being open to new understandings given us by the Holy Spirit.
We found we were very much at home in a local ELCA church, and have been there ever since.
FP: We poked fun recently at the idea of Lutherans being disinclined to do good works because of the value they place on finding God's grace--do you think this old saw still cuts wood?
Bob: This is a bit of a caricature of the traditional Lutheran mindset a la "Lake Woebegone", and like all caricatures, there is a bit of truth to it. But it really doesn't reflect reality. Lutheran Social Services is one of the largest social service non-profits in the world. The ELCA churches in my city ran a crisis hot-line for many years, ran several homeless day centers, and now run an elementary and middle school, sponsor missionaries and help support a Lutheran retirement home. We've built houses for the poor in Mexico, had a Spanish language ministry...the list goes on and on.
Of course the reason we do all these things isn't to work out our salvation, but in response to God's gift of salvation that has already been accomplished by God's grace through the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. So Lutherans tend to be pretty humble about our good works.
FP: The ELCA recently issued a kind of a muddled message on human sexuality--what did you think of it?
Bob: On the one hand, I believe the ELCA should ordain actively gay clergy and bless same-sex unions. But I am also a realist. I know that if the ELCA were to take this stand it would split the church. Now I wouldn't mind if some of those on the right left the ELCA, but we aren't talking about a small fringe on the right. Many congregations would be split right down the middle.
So I understand why the ELCA Task Force on Human Sexuality did what it did. It recommended three things: that the ELCA not change its policies against actively gay clergy and same-sex unions, that we should not necessarily discipline Pastors for violating these policies, and that we keep talking about how to stay together despite our differences. It's easy to dismiss these recommendations as muddled. But Lutherans believe their church leadership should reflect the beliefs and attitudes of the laity instead of getting too far out in front of them. And this statement is exactly where Lutherans are today. So my disagreement isn't with the task force as much as with my fellow Lutherans. So I'll try to persuade them to my view, and pray that the next iteration of the task force will reflect an evolving consensus of ELCA Lutherans and call for ordaining actively gay Pastors and blessing same-sex unions.
FP: Who are your favorite thinkers and writers in the area of politics, religion and theology?
Bob: When I was in college, the book The Christian Agnostic by Leslie Weatherhead allowed me to remain a Christian despite not being sure if I "bought" the whole thing as I do now. Scott Peck's books had a big impact on me when I was younger as well, and contributed to my progressive view on politics.
Over the years I've read C.S. Lewis , Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Paul Tillich , all pretty standard stuff, but very important to my thinking about my faith. Recently I've read God's Politics (like everyone else) and become a Jim Wallis fan. I've also read A Generous Orthodoxy by Brian McLaren because I'm trying to figure out this emergent stuff. Next on my list is Reinhold Neibuhr -- I keep hearing about him, and am curious to find out what he's all about.
FP: Many people feel frustrated by both the perception of religious people and the Bush Administration--what can they do to change things?
Bob: Jim Wallis likes to say that "we are the ones that we've been waiting for", but we can't just take to the streets and storm the Bastille as it were. We need to organize, and we need to be savvy about how we present our message. I am looking for a way to organize that can give focus to this incipient progressive Christian movement, an organization that is both political and religious, that is outside and cuts across existing denominational lines, to speak for those of us that believe in progressive policies because of our religious beliefs, not despite them. We need to advocate policies in authentic, orthodox Christian language so that we can't be dismissed by the majority of Americans that are theologically orthodox. We need to take the moral high ground, but with a deep humility and respect for those that disagree, or we will be just another group of hate-mongers. We have to be independent of both Republicans and Democrats so we can speak prophetically to both. If we get tied up too tightly with the Democrats, we'll just be another Democratic interest group. And we need to be very visible, in the blogosphere, in the MSM, on talk radio, everywhere. We should never allow another politically conservative Christian presume to speak for all Christians again.
Ultimately what we can all do is to evangelize by letting our friends, family, co-workers, acquaintances know that we care for the Samaritans and the weak among us because we are Christians, and that these are our Christian values.
FP: Are there a couple of posts you are most proud of?
Bob: Here are a couple:
I wrote this post after hearing Jim Wallis speak. It reflects my thoughts and feelings upon having realized that I was caught up in more than just blogging as a hobby, but as part of a new progressive Christian movement. This was when I moved from seeing this as primarily a political enterprise (i.e. elect a Democrat in 2008) to a religious enterprise (care for the poor, the infirm, the hungry.)
I wrote this post Revisiting My Post on Gay Christians after having spent a couple days really hating a previous post Gay Christian Playwright Needed.This was the first time I really didn't like something I had posted. I even considered deleting the post, but that would have been a bit dishonest. Instead, I sat with it for a couple days to figure out what it was I didn't like about it, and ultimately broke through to a deeper insight into the topic, as reflected in this later post. What's funny is that, now that I go back and read the first post, it really wasn't bad at all!
posted by Faithful Progressive at 5:45 PM
6 Comments:
But Lutherans believe their church leadership should reflect the beliefs and attitudes of the laity instead of getting too far out in front of them
No offense, but that just strikes me as very odd and somewhat regressive. Isn't the church supposed to be a step above and lead by example? That's like the math teacher saying "the kids don't want to do math because they realize its utility so we'll just watch cartoons until someone needs to figure something out mathematically and wants to learn how."
I agree with you OC, and suspect Bob does, too. One of the responders in the Lutheran nailed it for me:
"The report is a good compromise but bad theology. What theological principle (as opposed to sociological or cultural prejudice) could support finding the same person undertaking the same behaviors fit for the ministry in Minnesota but not in Tennessee? What teaching of Jesus would support such a conclusion?"
However, those who supported the compromise point out that young people are more accepting of gay clergy and that eventually this policy will change, and that in the mean time (in more ways than one!) this was a tiny step forward. My own congregation submitted a Statement urging no distinction between gays and anyone else...as oone member said, we're all equal in the eyes of God.
FP
A great interview, with many intriguing comments (as is becoming obvious here in the comments). Thanks, FP and Bob.
OC - yep, I agree with you that anything less than full acceptance of gays in the church is regressive. But, because the ELCA wants its leadership to reflect the laity, the task force itself was divided between progressives arguing for same-sex unions and gay clergy, and conservatives arguing that the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. Both sides felt they were "a step above" and "leading by example". I think in the end both sides did lead by example, because they came together with a compromise that basically says "we're going to stay together and continue working to understand what God wants us to do." People on both sides are unhappy with this, but perhaps it is a good example -- let's keep talking, not villify the other side, and look for common ground even as we advocate our view. It's not bad advice.
-Bob
Really good stuff on all sides in this interview...I posted bits of it up over at my own blog:
http://talkingdonkeys.blogspot.com
Good words on both sides...
Tim
Hi Tim:
I really enjoy your blog, too. Check it out-Talking Donkeys is great.
Here's the part of Bob's interview that really speaks to me:
"We need to organize, and we need to be savvy about how we present our message. I am looking for a way to organize that can give focus to this incipient progressive Christian movement, an organization that is both political and religious, that is outside and cuts across existing denominational lines, to speak for those of us that believe in progressive policies because of our religious beliefs, not despite them. We need to advocate policies in authentic, orthodox Christian language so that we can't be dismissed by the majority of Americans that are theologically orthodox. We need to take the moral high ground, but with a deep humility and respect for those that disagree, or we will be just another group of hate-mongers."
Stay tuned, early next week FP and many others will announce a new national group that may just fit with what Bob and others are calling for.
FP
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